Some could say the greatest challenge for teachers is the hostile work environment dealing with the outrageous behavior of a percentage of the students and lack of disciplinary support from the Administration.
This analysis, without factoring in geographical influence, is flawed from the start. Don't compare Oklahoma with any big city. Also, while they are earning their retirement, the payout doesn't start until they actually retire, and it varies based on years worked. And don't forget hours at home spent creating lesson plans and grading papers. I suggest a follow-up study of a few select cities, which should include cost of living, to give this a fair appraisal.
In the video I discuss regional variability. I stuck with national averages since that gives people a clearer overall view, and cherry picking regions can then basically let someone make any point they want.
That shows a low average of $52,870 in West Virginia and a high average of $95,160 in California. The highest district I saw was in Silicon Valley -- I forget the district -- where some teachers with longer service were just under $200k.
Within those states are big regions with bit differences in expenditures. An in-depth analysis would be thousands of districts, but overall what I saw is that market factors generally work at that level. Meaning, few districts offer non-competitive salaries since their job applicants can go elsewhere.
Also factor in each state’s requirements for certification. NYS requires 6 years of college..4 for Bachelors and 2 for Masters degrees along with further education once teaching.
I agree. Discussions about teachers’ salaries being low are socially forbidden, as if teachers are a sacred cow. I respect teachers, it can be and often is, a challenging job. I am who I am today, in part, because of several caring and wonderful teachers. But to be discouraged from having an honest conversation like you have written seems to be the norm. The teachers’ unions have been tremendously successful in that regard.
Depends on where a teacher lives. My daughter, an elementary school teacher in southeastern Louisiana, has to have 2 jobs to support herself. And the perks? Well, she doesn't get 2.5 months off. She gets 2 months off. During that time she has to take mandatory workshops without pay. So, you can say it is because she is salaried. And you're right. But you make it seem that she gets personal time off for 2.5 months when she doesn't. She has to spend some of that time in school. Then, because of legislative policies, she has tons of paperwork to fill out which starts a week before the students are back (that's during her 2 months off). During school session, she spends 3 hours/night during the week and 10-12 hours on the weekend filling out paperwork. She is a special ed teacher, so she has tons of forms to fill out for that job. Meanwhile, she is working a second job to keep her finances going, especially these days with the rising costs of gasoline, food, car and home insurance. In between she has to find time to take care of her house, like getting the grass cut, trimming the hedges, keeping the roof clean from fallen pine needles, keeping the house clean, sweeping the carport and patio, washing clothes, keeping groceries in the house whether grocery shopping in the store or calling it in and picking it up, cooking. She takes care of me, I am on dialysis and can barely walk and I cannot drive, so she has to find time to get me there (she organizes with my younger daughter to drive me there) and pick me up. She doesn't get raises. Instead, she gets a one-time stipend that raises her income for taxes, thereby raising her taxes to be paid. This stipend adds to her annual pay but it is not a yearly annual raise, tho it looks like it on paper. Meanwhile, her superintendent is the one who gets the perks. For example, he gets a car and gasoline charges paid for by the school's budget. My daughter doesn't get that. Most people who love to talk about the perks and high salaries of teachers are mostly talking about Chicago and New York school teachers and the administration of schools throughout the nation. Most teachers do not make the big bucks. On top of the lower wages and overwork hours, the schools have now become dangerous. She should be getting hazard pay. Luckily my daughter works around K-3rd graders. So, no school shooters there. Still, due to being a special ed teacher, she has come home many times with bruising on her arms, her face, her legs. She has come home with blackened eyes. One time she came home with a sprained wrist that had to be bandaged. Her students are sometimes violent, throwing chairs and kicking holes in the walls. And no, my daughter who has been teaching for 17 years only makes about $56,000/year, not close under $70,000. That would be the principal of her school, who is pushing closer to $80,000.
Skye, you’re totally right. Please add the extra time the majority of the upper grades teachers are expected to do by the administration to attend and sponsor school activities after school and even on the weekends for little or no pay. Also, like you said, no paid vacation and if you’re lucky, you might get some paid sick leave depending on the district and state. And, yes, you do get unpaid time off in the summer but finding a part time is not that easy. I tried when I was a teacher, and they wouldn’t hire me due to the fact that I was leaving in 2 months. And, forget about the great health insurance. I quit my state sponsored health care due to them charging me almost $500 and almost $1000 a month for my husband. My pension is only around $3000 a month with no SS and no guaranteed raises like cost of living raises. I’ve been retired for 12 years now (all middle school) and I just got a one time cost of living increase of a couple of thousand dollars. By the way, I retired with 40 years of experience (BA/MA) and was making $73,000 -working 212 days-working 9-10 hours a day. I started out making less than $3,300 for 175 days with 3 sick days and I was expected to do continuing education in the summer on my own dime. I could go on, but be assured the majority of the teachers, staff and administrators that I knew worked hard for their pay and were there for the kids and parents. I probably would have worked longer but, I got tired of the “Main Office” telling me how to do my job as an administrator. Teaching is an essential job and in some cases a dangerous one. I should know, I had my life threaten twice. And, I didn’t work in an “Union” State.
Thanks, Dee, for explaining even more the intensity of being a teacher. I agree with you about the "Main Office". In our district, they are called "Central Office". And the people in Central Office are completely out of touch with what the teachers have to do, and what the students are like these days. My daughter says it seems they have nothing to do all day long except to sit at their desks trying to make up stupid rules to keep their jobs. Rules that have nothing to do with children learning. These rules don't help the students at all except to make their school experience miserable. In order for children to learn, they need to have a bit of creativity and fun. But Central Office people don't understand the creativity of children. They want children writing before their motor skills are developed. They want children learning higher math before they know how to count. They want to take the fun out of learning. My daughter thinks it should be mandatory for the people in Central Office to spend at least a week in the frontlines of the schools, that is, spend time in a classroom with these children. Maybe then these mandates they send out might start making sense and be oriented towards children and not college students.
How about calculating the actual work days to their salary? For those professions that you list, they work at least 50 weeks per year. I respect the work they do, but they are not under paid.
Teachers are and have always been under paid. Did you forget that teachers don't get a paid vacation. In fact teachers don't get paid if they don't work! Have you ever been in a room with 28 kids with 10 being little devils? You are wrong sir. Teachers are under paid.
Teachers aren't under paid like they used to be, but still tend to be in rural areas, though again not like they used to be. I taught at a school that started paying teachers more when all the teacher's kids were on the free and reduced lunch programs.
I am a teacher for the last 40 years. I started out earning $12,000 annually while teaching in a poverty stricken area in NYC in 1984. My life was in danger all the time.
Fast forward to now. The total educational climate has changed. I recently worked in a local middle school where I was cursed and yelled at by 7th grade students. This was in a lovely upscale neighborhood in the Tampa Bay area. There is a complete disrespect for teachers throughout the country!
I live in Florida now, which is one of the lowest paying states for teachers' salaries.
People, such as yourself, who say teachers are not underpaid are delusional! Try living on a teacher's salary! Most teachers work several jobs to supplement their income.
Also, take into account all the time we spend working after school hours grading papers and reports. We also spend a considerable amount of our own money for supplies and extras for our students.
Let's also remember, the years of education we had to have in order to become a teacher!
In New York alone, you needed to have a graduate degree to remain a teacher.
We are not just teachers! So many of us become the surrogate parents to your children!
No one goes unto teaching to become wealthy!
However, many people can thank a teacher for their success in life!
Your comment about teachers not being underpaid is an insult to to the profession!
I agree that teachers are paid very well. My daughter is in her 2nd year of teaching, and she has discipline issues that are almost impossible to address. She teaches 2nd grade and has had children throw cereal with milk at the walls and another child smash the notepads (tablet computers). Then it's her fault because she can't control them, but she can't discipline them either. I substituted many years ago and you can't pay me enough to ever do that again. She gets paid well, but it's sad where the liberals have taken education. I think every liberal teacher should be paid $20K and every teacher that wants to actually educate get paid at least $60K.
Once again Ken, you're spot-on. I have lost all faith in "government" schools, as they're overwhelmingly operated and controlled by democrat administrators and their policies. Today's American "education" is sorely lacking in fundamentals, while focusing on fabricated/twisted social constructs. On average, we're not competitive with other nations, and it won't change until we get "government" out of it altogether. Teachers should be paid what they're worth at the local community-level and the "administrative blob" reduced to a minimum. The amount of money allocated towards today's education is enormous, while the end products are totally unacceptable.
Some could say the greatest challenge for teachers is the hostile work environment dealing with the outrageous behavior of a percentage of the students and lack of disciplinary support from the Administration.
This analysis, without factoring in geographical influence, is flawed from the start. Don't compare Oklahoma with any big city. Also, while they are earning their retirement, the payout doesn't start until they actually retire, and it varies based on years worked. And don't forget hours at home spent creating lesson plans and grading papers. I suggest a follow-up study of a few select cities, which should include cost of living, to give this a fair appraisal.
Hi Alex ---
In the video I discuss regional variability. I stuck with national averages since that gives people a clearer overall view, and cherry picking regions can then basically let someone make any point they want.
I stuck with numbers from the NEA and you can see a state-level comparison there as well: https://www.nea.org/resource-library/educator-pay-and-student-spending-how-does-your-state-rank
That shows a low average of $52,870 in West Virginia and a high average of $95,160 in California. The highest district I saw was in Silicon Valley -- I forget the district -- where some teachers with longer service were just under $200k.
Within those states are big regions with bit differences in expenditures. An in-depth analysis would be thousands of districts, but overall what I saw is that market factors generally work at that level. Meaning, few districts offer non-competitive salaries since their job applicants can go elsewhere.
Also factor in each state’s requirements for certification. NYS requires 6 years of college..4 for Bachelors and 2 for Masters degrees along with further education once teaching.
I agree. Discussions about teachers’ salaries being low are socially forbidden, as if teachers are a sacred cow. I respect teachers, it can be and often is, a challenging job. I am who I am today, in part, because of several caring and wonderful teachers. But to be discouraged from having an honest conversation like you have written seems to be the norm. The teachers’ unions have been tremendously successful in that regard.
Depends on where a teacher lives. My daughter, an elementary school teacher in southeastern Louisiana, has to have 2 jobs to support herself. And the perks? Well, she doesn't get 2.5 months off. She gets 2 months off. During that time she has to take mandatory workshops without pay. So, you can say it is because she is salaried. And you're right. But you make it seem that she gets personal time off for 2.5 months when she doesn't. She has to spend some of that time in school. Then, because of legislative policies, she has tons of paperwork to fill out which starts a week before the students are back (that's during her 2 months off). During school session, she spends 3 hours/night during the week and 10-12 hours on the weekend filling out paperwork. She is a special ed teacher, so she has tons of forms to fill out for that job. Meanwhile, she is working a second job to keep her finances going, especially these days with the rising costs of gasoline, food, car and home insurance. In between she has to find time to take care of her house, like getting the grass cut, trimming the hedges, keeping the roof clean from fallen pine needles, keeping the house clean, sweeping the carport and patio, washing clothes, keeping groceries in the house whether grocery shopping in the store or calling it in and picking it up, cooking. She takes care of me, I am on dialysis and can barely walk and I cannot drive, so she has to find time to get me there (she organizes with my younger daughter to drive me there) and pick me up. She doesn't get raises. Instead, she gets a one-time stipend that raises her income for taxes, thereby raising her taxes to be paid. This stipend adds to her annual pay but it is not a yearly annual raise, tho it looks like it on paper. Meanwhile, her superintendent is the one who gets the perks. For example, he gets a car and gasoline charges paid for by the school's budget. My daughter doesn't get that. Most people who love to talk about the perks and high salaries of teachers are mostly talking about Chicago and New York school teachers and the administration of schools throughout the nation. Most teachers do not make the big bucks. On top of the lower wages and overwork hours, the schools have now become dangerous. She should be getting hazard pay. Luckily my daughter works around K-3rd graders. So, no school shooters there. Still, due to being a special ed teacher, she has come home many times with bruising on her arms, her face, her legs. She has come home with blackened eyes. One time she came home with a sprained wrist that had to be bandaged. Her students are sometimes violent, throwing chairs and kicking holes in the walls. And no, my daughter who has been teaching for 17 years only makes about $56,000/year, not close under $70,000. That would be the principal of her school, who is pushing closer to $80,000.
Skye, you’re totally right. Please add the extra time the majority of the upper grades teachers are expected to do by the administration to attend and sponsor school activities after school and even on the weekends for little or no pay. Also, like you said, no paid vacation and if you’re lucky, you might get some paid sick leave depending on the district and state. And, yes, you do get unpaid time off in the summer but finding a part time is not that easy. I tried when I was a teacher, and they wouldn’t hire me due to the fact that I was leaving in 2 months. And, forget about the great health insurance. I quit my state sponsored health care due to them charging me almost $500 and almost $1000 a month for my husband. My pension is only around $3000 a month with no SS and no guaranteed raises like cost of living raises. I’ve been retired for 12 years now (all middle school) and I just got a one time cost of living increase of a couple of thousand dollars. By the way, I retired with 40 years of experience (BA/MA) and was making $73,000 -working 212 days-working 9-10 hours a day. I started out making less than $3,300 for 175 days with 3 sick days and I was expected to do continuing education in the summer on my own dime. I could go on, but be assured the majority of the teachers, staff and administrators that I knew worked hard for their pay and were there for the kids and parents. I probably would have worked longer but, I got tired of the “Main Office” telling me how to do my job as an administrator. Teaching is an essential job and in some cases a dangerous one. I should know, I had my life threaten twice. And, I didn’t work in an “Union” State.
Thanks, Dee, for explaining even more the intensity of being a teacher. I agree with you about the "Main Office". In our district, they are called "Central Office". And the people in Central Office are completely out of touch with what the teachers have to do, and what the students are like these days. My daughter says it seems they have nothing to do all day long except to sit at their desks trying to make up stupid rules to keep their jobs. Rules that have nothing to do with children learning. These rules don't help the students at all except to make their school experience miserable. In order for children to learn, they need to have a bit of creativity and fun. But Central Office people don't understand the creativity of children. They want children writing before their motor skills are developed. They want children learning higher math before they know how to count. They want to take the fun out of learning. My daughter thinks it should be mandatory for the people in Central Office to spend at least a week in the frontlines of the schools, that is, spend time in a classroom with these children. Maybe then these mandates they send out might start making sense and be oriented towards children and not college students.
How about calculating the actual work days to their salary? For those professions that you list, they work at least 50 weeks per year. I respect the work they do, but they are not under paid.
Their benefits package needs to be analyzed and spelled out in how much it’s worth along with only working 9 months a year.
Teachers are and have always been under paid. Did you forget that teachers don't get a paid vacation. In fact teachers don't get paid if they don't work! Have you ever been in a room with 28 kids with 10 being little devils? You are wrong sir. Teachers are under paid.
Truth & are Anti Education & students suffer
Go Charter & Home Schooling
Teachers aren't under paid like they used to be, but still tend to be in rural areas, though again not like they used to be. I taught at a school that started paying teachers more when all the teacher's kids were on the free and reduced lunch programs.
I am a teacher for the last 40 years. I started out earning $12,000 annually while teaching in a poverty stricken area in NYC in 1984. My life was in danger all the time.
Fast forward to now. The total educational climate has changed. I recently worked in a local middle school where I was cursed and yelled at by 7th grade students. This was in a lovely upscale neighborhood in the Tampa Bay area. There is a complete disrespect for teachers throughout the country!
I live in Florida now, which is one of the lowest paying states for teachers' salaries.
People, such as yourself, who say teachers are not underpaid are delusional! Try living on a teacher's salary! Most teachers work several jobs to supplement their income.
Also, take into account all the time we spend working after school hours grading papers and reports. We also spend a considerable amount of our own money for supplies and extras for our students.
Let's also remember, the years of education we had to have in order to become a teacher!
In New York alone, you needed to have a graduate degree to remain a teacher.
We are not just teachers! So many of us become the surrogate parents to your children!
No one goes unto teaching to become wealthy!
However, many people can thank a teacher for their success in life!
Your comment about teachers not being underpaid is an insult to to the profession!
Try being a teacher for a day!
You will change your tune!
I agree that teachers are paid very well. My daughter is in her 2nd year of teaching, and she has discipline issues that are almost impossible to address. She teaches 2nd grade and has had children throw cereal with milk at the walls and another child smash the notepads (tablet computers). Then it's her fault because she can't control them, but she can't discipline them either. I substituted many years ago and you can't pay me enough to ever do that again. She gets paid well, but it's sad where the liberals have taken education. I think every liberal teacher should be paid $20K and every teacher that wants to actually educate get paid at least $60K.
Once again Ken, you're spot-on. I have lost all faith in "government" schools, as they're overwhelmingly operated and controlled by democrat administrators and their policies. Today's American "education" is sorely lacking in fundamentals, while focusing on fabricated/twisted social constructs. On average, we're not competitive with other nations, and it won't change until we get "government" out of it altogether. Teachers should be paid what they're worth at the local community-level and the "administrative blob" reduced to a minimum. The amount of money allocated towards today's education is enormous, while the end products are totally unacceptable.
Wrong again! Teachers pay
has nothing to do with Democrats control. Perhaps you are confused on where all that money goes. It's not going to teachers pay.